Ok so I don't know how the judging thing would work because Im thinkin that if we do the rookie, cruiser, vet........ then that kinda kills the idea of gettin stomped by a pro when ur still wipin the snot up.

Bad blood? I haven't noticed any, except for the odd individual tirade, there is usually worse going on within the sites than directed outwardly.

Competitions can be bad when people are involved who are obsessed with winning, whether it's the Olympics or quiz night at the pub (you'll be amazed at what a person will do to win a pair of navelty slippers).

Perhaps we could run 2 or 3 events at the same time. A competition for those who promise to behave and be good sports, some mixed teams who just work together on a group pic and a general theme for individuals.

Max - it's also tax deductable

Well, this thread has ripened enough, I think I will throw in my two cents...

From the top:
Quote:Ahh, hold on a minute there, Mr. Max. It is funny, as you have been here even longer than I, but let us not forget the way it was about a year ago. HM was a lot different, I admit, but a lot of s**t got slung. When BA writes:

Quote:He means a certain Eroupean fellow and, well to be quite honest, one of the main reasons Heromorph was created in the first place. So, I understand where he is coming from, and one must be "True To Your School", as it were.

But enough about that, Here is another thing that is beginning to look ludicrous:

How many of the participating artists are members at both sites? Surely I am not the only Member to notice. I mean, come now, just off the top of my head:

Android
Black Alchemy
Winterhawk
Myself
Brick
Batmic
MatrixBlur
Divine Monkey
Junfan
Ahormona
Quantum FX
Angelophile
Cereal Killer
PowerMaster Jazz
Se7enDaze
ThayneLuc

Are without a doubt mutual members. And then there are artists from C2F, who now post here:

DPerciful
B
Kev Incal
Bathori
Poison Ivy
Mystic Morgan
The Imij Factory
Cmeza
Bill Turner
Amy Karas
Bearbot

Even Force95B, when he works up th courage to post his stuff. (C'mon, it's not exactly abig secret...) So, how is this a Competition between sites? Let's not forget, this year's winners were two guys from C2F!

Deadlines are deadlines, I think you have to accept that in any Project. Limits are limits, that is life.
What I liked the most about last year's Crossover was working with Poison Ivy, creating something that could be posted twice, if for no other reason. I don't like the word Competition, I like the word Challenge: A Challenge to The Artists to Create Art Mutually.
The things I like in this thread are:

Three tiers of artists, so no one gets annoyed or feels humiliated. I also think it will match up artists who are at the same stage in thier development, i.e. have been using Photoshop for x years.

Match up artists in the same sub-group, i.e. I want to work with an Advanced Artist who posts primarily at C2F.

Loose deadline. Hell, we do that already. We'll have three: One for the Rookies, One for the Cruiserweights and one for the Advanced. Rookies have to go first...
(Just kidding! Don't worry!)

Voting can be both, or either: If by ballot, ballots must be emailed. (We've done this before, no big deal. Hey, if you don't have email, I don't want you voting anyway!)
If by Judging, that's even better, but more work for Judges. Max and Mike should be in charge of that, if this is the choice...
("It's like calling 'shotgun', Max. I called it, so you have to do it...")

Max and Mike, call the ball...

BB

Just a note... Juvie Mike has posted at C2F that he won't be able to organise this thing again this year, due to not having time. And since I'm a glutton for punishment, I'll volunteer to fill his shoes, unless he changes his mind, of course.

Team-up vs. Competition... is there any consensus whatsoever on this? I don't see any. I personally like the idea of a team-up, but then someone will inevitably not be able to finish on time... I've done a bunch of team-ups, sometimes they go fast and other times they can take months... so a competition might be better.

Incidentally, here's an idea, since there's no agreement on the point: why not allow both? We can pair people off, let them talk, and they can <b>either</b> team up <b>or</b> do two different pics using the same base pic, or with the same character, or something. Whichever they prefer. That might be easier than trying to get all of us to agree on one or the other approach.

Thoughts?

If it aint broke don't fix it.
I think the team up worked great last year, I really enjoyed it. The only problem is that some people didn't finish on time. The solution to this problem is not to let the late posters join in this time. If you didn't make the deadline your out, simple as that.
Last time the theme for the pictures was teamwork and partnership, this time have the theme Rivalry and/or combat.

Quote:
And BA, I didn't get my feelings hurt, I had fun. I wanted to win but I didn't, O well. It is always more about the challenge then the results. I would did it again, or are ya scared for a rematch It was funny watching the guys Judge though. I though BB and Jr were going to cry, bunch of wussy's

Okay, as Hawk pointed out to me in the shout box, if people want to do an intersite challenge, they can just use the dueling system you guys have here. Another team-up is probably a more natural means of fostering a good relationship between the sites. So I'm tempted to suggest we should just do it again, and Max and I can match people up... I'm not sure if the rookie/cruiser/veteran thing would be necessary in that case, but I guess we could go with it, it'd make the quality of any given image more uniform, if nothing else. I'll now open up the floor for rebuttals, but I do think this makes a great deal of sense. Oh, and how about a word from my opposite number -- Max, what d'you think?

First off, no rush. The last crossover was only 4 months ago. We have lots of time.
Alright??????? so some are interested in competition, some aren????????t. Some want team-ups, some don????????t. My fevered brain just came up with this idea, try it for a minute;

Artists from both sites are formed into squads that will be made up of Rookies, Cruiserweights and Veterans ???????? balanced between the squads.
The squads are given assignments and due dates (this will take a while). Among the assignments will be each artist doing a picture plus other special categories. E.g. a pencil sketch from a Rookie, a team-up manip from the squad????????s Cruiserweights, a Veteran manip with a pre-selected base pic, an adult pic and so on.

So each squad prepares their work and works together as they see fit. Then squads will be told to submit entries on specific dates.
Example:
Squads are told that on a particular date they must post a manip from one of their Veterans (we can run several contests simultaneously BTW). So the squads select an image from one of their Veterans and post it but none of them will know prior which artist is posting from the other squads (I????????ve figured out we can do this quite simply with a monitoring judge, nevermind ???????? I????????ll tell you later). Kind of like playing cards.

Then the voting can take place. Squads get x points for first place, y for second and so on (maybe they can even choose to play a double points card before posting ???????? it????????s a game show now). But the only feeling of competition is against yourself, you can????????t compete against someone you don????????t know you????????re going to be up against.

The squad approach also minimizes the impact from those who don????????t finish on time. Late finishers might be able to post in a later round if another artist can cover. Or a squad may make other artists work extra to make up for the slackers.

I would like to see at least 30 artists enter, and imagine it taking up to 3 months. Might sound complex but it????????s not really.

Max ???????? why be ordinary?

Too complex methinks. I'm handing over the duties to B, but I'm still going to put in my everlasting 20p.

I think we should do the simple thing and do a team-up again. We could ban those that failed to meet the deadline, but I worry that we might not have enough people then. Also I'm a big fan of second chances.

So it makes sense then to set a deadline. I'm going to say March 1st. That gives us plenty of time to get everything settled.

Entrants must register interest by January 15th.

The theme will be rivalry.

To ensure that people are taking part, we (the guys in charge) will ask for progress pictures on February 15th.

As for the people that are in both camps. If you feel strongly in one or the other then state that, if you feel you're really mixed then say that, and we'll use you to even out the numbers.

That sound alright to everyone?

Mike

[snip]
Tremendously complex set of rules by Max...
[/snip]

Uh, hunh? Wha? Could you do that again, maybe with a PowerPoint presentation? Or a few graphs?



How tough is this? C'mon, I gave you a list of mutual artists, can you place them into three groups? I can. If we can't get an artist from C2F, we take one of the dual artists in his/her place. Set a Theme (or not), pull the trigger and stand back.
Do you want to wait for people to sign up, or should we do something different this time and invite artists? It's up to you two guys.

BB

Okay... we're doing another team-up. I think that's set.

To participate, folks, please sign up either here or at C2F. If anyone wants to invite an artist, they can do that... but then that artist has to sign up. I hadn't been thinking about deadlines, but Mike's 20p makes sense... the deadline for signing up is thus January 15.

People sign up as members of whichever site they feel they're more a part of. Anyone who posts at both can sign up as a floater, and we'll use you to even out the numbers.

We're not going to ban anyone... someone or other is guaranteed not to be able to make it on time, whatever we do, so there's really no point. But please, pretty please with sugar on top, only sign up if you're fairly sure you can meet the deadline. And I do think we (ie, those in charge) will be wanting an update on how you're doing a couple weeks before the ultimate deadline.

Once we hit the deadline for signing up, we split everyone into the rookie/cruiser/veteran rankings and pair people off. Then they go forth and team manip. And that's that.

The consensus from the vocal people is a team-up, cool - that's what it is.

Now we know we can put the word out and ask for artists who want to take part.

As for the date, I think it's way too early but let's ask around first and see when people are available (I won't be for Feb and March - it's my Summer).

Pairing of the artists should be random. If it's just a standard team-up I suggest there's no need for choosing levels.

Just because I love lists: it looks like we Have the following people signed up. Correct me if I am wrong.
Remember to give Max or B your e-mail address if it is not in your profile.

Heromorphers
furiousmax
bathori
QuantumFX
Tazman
Dark_Wanderer
bikerbot
Thayne_LuC
matrixblur
brick
Winterhawk
Dark_Knight_DK
JrMcdeath

C2f'ers
B
Menace
Biohaz_Daddy
Shaylinn

The Bold Comic floaters
PoisonIvy
MysticMorgan

Thanks for the list, Hawk. JuvieMike has also signed up to represent C2F. And as it stands, I expect the Bold folks are gonna end up batting for C2F as well.

I agree with Max that there's no real need for rankings if we're doing a team-up. In fact, a rookie can learn a lot being teamed with someone who's been doing this stuff for years.

As for deadlines, we're giving everyone til January 15 to sign up. The final deadline can be decided later. There's no hurry.

Uh... that's it. Again, if you want to participate, post a message to that effect and give us your email.

Ok, just to make sure I am clear on this. We put our name in the pot for the contest, then be randomly paired off ( so no need for the 3 divisons?) then the paired off will work together through e-mail and other communications. will this consist of sending files ( with layers back and forth to each other? If so we may want to find out who is using what program. I for one use Paint shop, but if I get a Photoshop file I can open it but I get an error saying part of the file could not be opened. I did not want this to be a problem that could come up later on.

I sayth this to one and all.
" LET THE GAMES BEGIN!! "
or something like that.

Quote:

Okay: you sign up for the crossover (it's not really a contest, though), Max and I randomly pair people off, one DCGer with one HMer... assuming we get enough DCGers. Then those paired off do a manip together. How you choose to communicate with your partner is up to you, though it'll certainly involve sending files of some sort. It could be .psd files with layers, but it could also be .jpg files for initial stages (ie, to get feedback on what you've so far done) and the full .psd files only for the final compilation of the image. Usually, once you've gotten in contact with your partner you'll be able to work out who has what program and in what manner it would be best to send files.

Let's Gitter Done! :)

Quote:

We have to communicate?

Ok, I just want to make sure I understand, you are going to do a tiered pairing, or you are going to do a free-for-all?

Heromorphers
furiousmax
bathori
Tazman
Dark_Wanderer
bikerbot
Thayne_LuC
matrixblur
brick
Winterhawk
Dark_Knight_DK
JrMcdeath

C2f'ers
B
Menace
Biohaz_Daddy
Shaylinn
JuvenileMike
Bill Turner
Force95B
GraphicMouse
QuantumFX
PoisonIvy
MysticMorgan

If C2f gets the floaters and quantum (who switch to a floater over at c2f), the teams are even as they stand now.
That would make 11 pair, thats pretty good. It would be nice to see a couple more people from each site join up.