i was gonna do the smart thing and stay outta this....but eh, seeing everyone dog on the writers guild for being overpaid or lazy....i dont know much facts, but i do know this:

when battlestar galactica made those resistance webisodes of there's, both as a seperate work, and as an advertisting tool....the writers didnt get nothing beyond the intial payment, no rights or anything. because of this whole internet braodcast thing.

all's i know....is it would suck to do something, and then get told "nope, thats all you get, the royalities(which is where most writers make their dough) are ours, cause it aint tv we be showing these things on, its the web! NANANANA MOTHERF**KERS! we get all the money, mainly for doing nothing but sitting on our behinds!"

just thought to throw that out...and about writers being overpaid...they aint, not for the tv business. they're not hurting, but they;re not being treated like royality like the insepid actors and actresses.

ehhh. i go back to reading comics.

I saw a advertisement that Jay Leno and the tonight show were going to start showing new shows again in the new year. since daily shows like this are the first to get hit with something like this they are also the first to come back. does this mean the strike is over or did they hire scabs!!!

Okay, responding to Chillyplasma first, because it almost sounded like an allegation, so I want to clear the air.

First statement was a joke. And stated as a joke. And seguayed as "moving away from the joke." It's good that you do volunteer work, and so do I. However, expecting someone to agree not to be paid within their professional career is asinine. It's one thing to volunteer to step in and do something, and another to begin in good faith and be told 'you're not getting paid.'

Since it came up later on, and considering your question, I'll point at the Battlestar Galactica Webisodes (this story is specifically "The Resistance" webisodes from S2). Ron Moore wrote, directed, edited the webisodes and then recieved a phone call. Not going to pay him, not going to put credits on them. He said "Okay, hold on, we're going to negotiate this."

They walked into his studio and TOOK the webisodes from him, instead. Their intellectual property, and their utter contempt for the writers.

Ron Moore, like Joss Whedon, is one of the most outspoken members of the WGA. And yes, it is affecting Battlestar Galactica. It's American Television that's shot in Canada, but it's still American Television.

Now, to Kevin Smith, since you only again looked at the tongue-in-cheek portion, but didn't comment on the creative process involving way too many people to blame the writers in every instance of Hollywood Crap. Want a writer apologizing? Lets go to one of those out on Strike.

Tim Kring, writer for Heroes, apologizing about the pacing of Season 2. Look it up.

What I'm objecting to here is villainizing the writers, or calling them lazy, etc. Of blaming everything gone wrong in Hollywood on them, and dismissing it.

"Why do you care?" I've been asked. I'm not a member of the WGA. I'm an artist, and a writer, but not in the Hollywood scene and never will be. No, I'm a fan just like everyone else who watches any shows. But I'm a fan that can do something to help, so I am and have been. And they're thankful, helpful, and personable--they've stated their case clearly to me, and I grew up believing in people getting a fair deal. It's naieve, but it's something I'm willing to work towards.

Winterhawk: The networks are forcing Leno, Stewart and Colbert back into the studio without their writers. Stewart and Colbert are members of the WGA, whose writers are still out on strike. Leno's been a supporter of the WGA and has been featured in the "Speechless without Writers" internet campaign, and will also be returning without writers.

Letterman, meanwhile, has made the first deal with the WGA and will be returning the same day WITH his writers, because his production company is seperate from the big networks and he chose to negotiate on his own (since he's been paying apx $360,000 a week to salary and insure his team of writers and affected staff it's really not surprising--he was on-air in the 1988 strike and put on a very tongue-in-cheek anti-network variety show until they gave him back his writers).

Stewart and Colbert, meanwhile, everyone's interested to see how their shows will go. According to WGA guidelines, they can't perform any section normally entirely scripted and written by the Writers ("The Word" or Stewart's jokes) and they can't perform as a scripted character (and since Colbert does his entire show 'in character'). . .

They were essentially told "You have backgrounds in improv. Get back on the air."

Moira, you keep being misleading.
For example you keep throwing up ?not getting paid?, ALL these writers are getting paid for the job they are doing, the writers want more royalties.

You said Ron Moore didn?t get paid for the webisodes, but according to him, he did:
?"We got in this long, protracted thing and eventually they agreed to pay everybody involved. But then, as we got deeper into it, they said 'But we're not going to put any credits on it. You're not going to be credited for this work. And we can use it later, in any fashion that we want.' At which point I said 'Well, then we're done and I'm not going to deliver the webisodes to you.' And they came and they took them out of the editing room anyway -- which they have every right to do.?

From now on I doubt everything you write Moira, my reasons?
1. You wrote Kevin Smith apologized for two movies, and he didn?t.
2. You wrote they were writers strikes happening in other countries, but there aren?t.
3. You wrote Ron Moore didn?t get paid for webisodes, and he did.
4. I don?t believe your statistics on writer?s salaries, for a start statistics can be skewed any way you want. Secondly you are implying most writers get paid $5000 to $8500 a year. Any fool can see that is simply not the reality.

When you ?researched the heck out of this? you must have left your research behind, because so far you have presented information as true that is not. Unfortunately this is typical union behaviour to get people on their side.

I don?t believe in strikes (except for health and safety reasons, any writers working down mines?). My view is negotiate for a better deal, and if you?re worth it you?ll get it (if you?re really worth it, they?ll offer the better deal before you ask).
Most of us don?t have the advantage of a writing job, we go to work in jobs that are not nearly as exciting or close to the glamour. And we are paid a wage or salary to do our job. And while we work we may be required to come up with things that benefit the company, making the company more profit? and we don?t get a royalty off that profit, we were already paid once.
You say you want a fair deal for writers, in that case they would lose all royalties and work like the rest of us. Writers already have a better than fair deal. And if they want to bargain for more, let them, but striking is childish and greedy.

And here is the sad part, this is a perfect example of what defines America. People with comfortable lives go on strike for more money and the whole country takes notice because it affects their television.
Yet right now exploitation labour is allowed in America, in Florida fruit pickers are paid a tiny amount for extremely hard work. They have no minimum wage, no workers rights, no workplace safety regulations and they are not allowed to form a union.
And all of this is perfectly legal, because Americans want cheap food on their plates.

Why don?t you go research the heck out of that?

This is getting ridiculous. Is it an ego thing? Seriously despite chilli's couching his attack/rant in righteous indignation he is correct in that there are more important things to worry about. Not a single aspect of this so called "problem" has a measurable impact on your personal lives or on society as a whole. It may be a large dispute in the relatively small and ultimately disposable industry of film and television media, but it only serves as a distraction to our very real and much tougher problems yet to be solved.

Then there is the whole tree in the woods aspect. Did you hear that? Me neither.

The world has got along just fine for thousands of years with out television. maybe it is time to hit the proverbial reset button and get the world as a whole off it's ass to address more important issues.

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like looking at internet porn.

Here is a simple fix that will take ccare of ALL unions. Do what Reagan did in the 80's when he fired the striking air traffic controllers, give those that wanted to work a chance to cross the line and then fired the rest and made it so they could never work in that field again. Unions are nothing more than lazy Americans wanting more money for less work, which raises the prices on American goods to the extent it is cheaper to buy made in China crap than to buy something that was made in the USA. Obviously the writters are doing well enough that they can spend several months away from work otherwise they would have made more of an effort to solve the issues at hand instead of whinning about them. Do they have a point...Probably, do I really care...Not really. Most shows on tv suck anymore anyway so it is more enjoyable to join Hawk, Jr, DW, Dar, and yes even Bio surfing porn on the net...that is when I can get it past the filter . I figured I would throw my .02 in before the thread gets locked

I find myself largely in agreement with both Chilly and Masterchief... but I would add my perspective that the writer's strike is the most positive thing that has happened to TV in some time. Given that all Prime Time commercial TV is complete crap, the less of that which is produced the better.

I don't believe it would affect shows like Discovery Channel or Science Channel, etc, the genre of shows I watch. Most of the talent in those shows is related to production, not writing and directing.

So let them stay on strike... for years. For Ever. If the other unions want to honor their strike and deny themselves employment, that's their problem. Unions should have died when smokestack industries died in the West.

Bottom line... just fire them, be done with it and hire new guys.

I'm betting there are plenty of non-union writers in this country who'd love a shot at writing prime time shows for the kind of money the previous writers were paid, as long as they didn't have to worry about getting tossed out when the strike ended. Frankly, they might bring a few new ideas to the table instead of endlessly rehashing the same concepts.

Sure, it would take new guys a while to get used to working in the madhouse of Hollywood, but if the only price was a few less TV shows and a few less movies, that's OK. The quality of what they did get out couldn't possibly suffer given current writing is so crappy.

Shadar

Moira and Chilly, you both seem like fanatical extremists. No offence, but I think it's people like you two (highly opinionated and deadset on winning) that make trivial arguments like this come to blows or wars. Taking sides is sounding more and more dangerous all the time, but I want add a little something that I haven't heard yet. This is the reason that I don't like thinking too hard on solutions to the issue of all the cr@p Holywood churns out. Focus groups. They are trying to please way too many people and end up pissing off everyone. They take a kick@ss concept, through in a talking cat for the kids, a hasbeen actor for the older crowd, lots of angst and shipping for the teen girls and a hot young actress for all the men, but give her a brain for the older women. Then they slap on a script present it with a well cut teaser. So what have you got? A piece of sh!t that you noone knows sucks until you're halfway through the movie and already paid 10 bucks for it. Boxoffice thinks it's a hit wonder why everyone is complaining. Solution? Screw the WGA strike, WE need to strike. Not that anyone will, mindless garbage is as addicting as nicotine and many people secretly like it.

I think y'all are all retarded........

Without the WGA strike we would have not gotten the return of American Gladiator (or whatever that show is called). Now that is entertainment!

Jr., you are a turd burgler!!!!

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Ah Darkwinter, you are obviously young. So young that you don't know the meaning of 'fanatical' or 'extremist'.
People who believe passionately enough in something to argue are important, that's how change happens.

I was arguing against Moira because she used false information to support her case. And it ticks me off that someone would spend their time supporting writers when there is actual slave labour happening in the same country.

I'm not sure what the rest of your thing is about, but "lots of angst and shipping for the teen girls..."
Teen girls nowadays like shipping? Moving frieght by sea? Wow, I am so out of touch...

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The use of the word shipping here could be the generic that covers all modes of transport of goods. Including air, rail, and truck. Now who doesn't love the air transport of freight? It's hot!

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Speaking of false information it's hardly an indictment when you are taking a specific incident (3 fruit pickers held captive for a year i.e. slave labor) and applying that to unfair labor practices where a union could actually do some good. Seems more of a debate strategy for derailing her position (silly as it may be). But then it only highlights how ridiculous this whole thread is. We should truly be more concerned for the fruit pickers, not only in Florida, but in California, and anywhere else where the federal government turns a blind eye to such exploitation. Instead of debating about goofballs in the entertainment industry, how about turning this discussion into something that could actually help somebody?

Now that would be hot.

Sorry, I've been hanging out at a site for fanfic writers recently and everyone there seems to know what that means. Shipping is from 'relationship'. It basically means pairing people up. As for my rant, I just think you are way too hung up on the fact that Moira isn't 100% accurate in what she's saying. Not that I really know how much she is misrepresenting things, it sounds like it's just a minor case of exaggeration and bias.

I don't why the AMPTP doesn't just settle. They're claiming that they're not making a lot through web broadcasts and iTunes, but they used the same line in the 1988 strike, when writers asked for a share of video revenue. The WGA settled for a nickel for every video back then, but the studios get $10 per video and between $15 and $20 per DVD. Disney alone sold 2 million movies over iTunes this past year. The WGA is not going to buy the line, "It's too early to tell..."

the answer to any question including big business that begins with 'why don't they just....' is, always, money.

they thank that they can wait out the writers, and that popular support will fade for them and that soon writters will have to settle with them.

its why i try not to like tv or movies anymore. there is just too much big business interference these days

According to KryptonSite the strike is now over, i think, sort of. From what i can understand they have voted on new contracts or what ever but will vote on something else in a month or so.
But for now its over and the writers are back to work on our favorite shows, and maybe new favorites *cough*green Arrow& show*cough*

I hope this kind of logic permeates society in other areas.

For example, I sell my house to you today for $100,000, and later on you turn around and sell it to someone else for $150,000. I deserve a share of that $50,000 profit dammit!

Yay, the strike is over. we now return you to your regulary scheduled program....